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How safe is ING????

 
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Old 26-10-2007, 01:51 PM   #1
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How safe is ING????

Hi All

Just thought I would seek some opinions re how safe is ING.

It always worries me when banks started giving interest on deposits which is virtually = to the interest they are charging.

The one particualr instance that I remember is Pyramid who simply closed their door and all deposits went bye bye. In this case they weren't a bank but then is ING actually under the banking provisions etc???

As I said I just thought I would put it out there to see what everybody thought.

Cheers
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Old 26-10-2007, 02:08 PM   #2
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ING are one of the larger global financial institutions ... if size has anything to do with it, they'd be considered very safe. (I know that's not enough to guarantee safety, but they aren't a one-product-wonder).

When their ING Direct product was first launched, it was fairly revolutionary for Australia (everybody else copied later), and I had never heard of the company prior to that - I was surprised to learn that they were global company!

To a degree, I've always considered their product a branding exercise more than anything ... especially since they now offer loans and investment products to the local market ... I have no idea how profitable such bank accounts are, but their costs would have to be very low compared to traditional bank accounts ... especially since I've never set foot inside an ING office or branch despite having used their bank accounts for many years!

Interesting question though.
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Old 26-10-2007, 03:07 PM   #3
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... especially since I've never set foot inside an ING office or branch despite having used their bank accounts for many years!
Which is exactly the way they like it! Branches cost money...as do pesky things like employees!

N.
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Old 26-10-2007, 04:04 PM   #4
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Just as an addendum I have today moved my money out of ING back into St George, who as Sim mentioned, were one of the banks that came out with a comparable product.

Prior to opening the ING accounts I looked into what ING was all about and found that they were a large Dutch based insurance organization and took some comfort from their size. But now hearing the start (or continuing ) Sub prime meltdown and the extent of the affect of financial institution I just get this slightly uneasy feeling that they may be involved. I say this all purely of intuition and non of this has any basis in fact

Why am I using St George - because they are covered by the banking act and as such their deposits should have insurance. I was never able to confirm that ING had this same cover.

Maybe I am completely wrong but what the hell, its done.

Cheers
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Old 26-10-2007, 04:32 PM   #5
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FWIW, I started using NAB's iSaver account and closed our ING Direct accounts a while back for our personal banking, not so much because the rate was better (6.3% for NAB vs 6.15% for ING) or because I trusted the NAB any more than I would trust ING ... but because I could access the funds in the NAB iSaver account instantly if I needed them.

It's not that big a deal, but I hate waiting a day each time I want to make a transaction ... I have once or twice done a series of transactions as follows:

1. Say I want to make an expense claim (let's say, $3,000) against my company to reimburse me for business expenses I've paid personally (eg on my personal credit card)

2. Company account doesn't have enough money in it because it loaned it all to my trust as a short term loan (to be paid back before the EoFY). Company looks to the trust to pay back some of the loan now to meet cashflow requirements.

3. Trust bank account doesn't have enough money in it to pay back part of the loan immediately because it is all invested (and more specifically because I don't want to drop my trust bank balance below my usual threshold). This is the only problem with managed funds - short term cashflow can be an issue if distributions are infrequent!

4. Trust looks to borrow some more money from me to cover it's short term cashflow requirements (interest free loan).

5. I don't have enough money in my personal bank account to loan any more to the trust at the moment, because it is all in the savings account.

6. Transfer $5,000 from the NAB iSaver account to my personal bank account

7. Transfer $5,000 from my personal bank account to my trust bank account as a loan (adjust personal Quicken records and trust Quickbooks records to reflect increased loan balance)

8. Transfer $5,000 from trust bank account to company bank account to pay back part of that loan (adjust trust and company Quickbooks records to reflect the decreased loan balance)

9. Transfer $3,000 from company bank account to personal bank account as expense reimbursement, leaving $2,000 in there for other operating expenses. Adjust personal Quicken and company Quickbooks records to show expense claim paid

10. Transfer $3,000 from personal account back into iSaver account



Now imagine doing this if I had to wait a day between transactions ... now it only takes couple of minutes to do it all!

Not that I do this regularly - usually only towards the end of financial year when I'm making sure all expense claims are paid and only if current cashflow situation dictates that I must.

Naturally accurate record keeping is important if you are going to juggle money like this!
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Old 26-10-2007, 04:44 PM   #6
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that just confuses me reading it.... glad your accountant has the handle on it all....
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Old 26-10-2007, 06:19 PM   #7
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Hi HandyAndy,

ING Australia is owned 49% by ANZ and 51% by ING Group Netherlands ING Australia > ING Group

Hence, why ANZ use ING investment products and insurance...

Cheers,

Dan
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Old 26-10-2007, 06:23 PM   #8
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ING Australia is owned 49% by ANZ and 51% by ING Group Netherlands
Ahh - I didn't know that! Thanks.
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Old 26-10-2007, 06:27 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by handyandy View Post
Hi All

Just thought I would seek some opinions re how safe is ING.

Cheers
Hi HA!

We should always be cautious but see the following from ING Group homepage

Market cap: 72 billion Euro (so a good deal bigger than the Australian banks)

Form your own view...but I wouldn't be overly concerned!

Cheers
N.

Quote:
Who we are
ING Group is a global financial services company of Dutch origin with 150 years of experience, providing a wide array of banking, insurance and asset management services in over 50 countries. Our 120,000 employees work daily to satisfy a broad customer base: individuals, families, small businesses, large corporations, institutions and governments. Based on market capitalisation, ING is one of the 20 largest financial institutions worldwide and ranked in the top-10 in Europe.
Business


ING is the number one financial services company in the Benelux home market. ING services its retail clients in these markets with a wide range of retail-banking, insurance and asset management services. Our wholesale banking activities operate worldwide but with a primary focus on the Benelux countries. In the United States, ING is a top-5 provider of retirement services and life insurance. In Canada, we are the top property and casualty insurer. ING Direct is a leading direct bank with over 15 million customers in nine large countries. In the growth markets of Asia, Central Europe and South America we, for example, provide life insurance. We are also a large asset manager with assets under management of around EUR 500 billion.
Mission


We strive to deliver our financial products and services in the way our customers expect: with exemplary service, maximum convenience and at competitive rates. This is reflected in our mission statement: to set the standard in helping our customers manage their financial future.
Stakeholders


ING conducts its business on the basis of clearly defined business principles. In all our activities we carefully weigh the interests of our stakeholders: customers, employees, shareholders, business partners and society at large. ING strives to be a good corporate citizen.
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Old 26-10-2007, 08:08 PM   #10
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Hi Gang,

I have been using Bankwest's online saving account for the cash component of our SMSF. Their rate has been higher than ING's for awhile now. HBOS, also very big, is the ower and hence I imagine Bankwest is also a safe option.

Cheers - Gordon
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